Grabbers

~~~

Daily Post
Pastor eaten by crocodiles while trying to walk on water like Jesus

“We still don’t understand how this happened because he fasted and prayed the whole week.”

What is this religion-shit all about~?

I think we can look at this in two ways –

1. The push.
2. The pull.

That is …

1. Like it is really quite likely that you will be a muslim if you were born in Cairo.
2. Brians seem to go out of their way to `grab something to hold on to`.

I am thinking that there is not much mystery to number one (is there~?) …

… but, number two is a bit more problematic.

*I am going to take a low Level (probably 2) approach to this*

Let’s start with `just something` to get us going –

“Some people get into religion, because they `give-it-a-try` when a teenager …
and find it impossible to admit that they have made a fucking great dick of themselves …
so, pretend they still believe it.”

*Note that `pretending to do something` for long enough, often makes it `real`.

I know it will make this untidy … but let’s open this up a bit.
Why do people get all giddy about whether one bunch of men kick a ball into a net (or not)?

I think it fair-to-say … that the explanation for religion will be the same as the one for supporting a football team.

I am thinking that it is all part of a thing called – `giving meaning to life`.

The Mystic question is –

Why does everyone think that life has no meaning … unless they grab on to `something`?

You can try –

“It is a bit much to say that `life has `no` meaning ` without grabbed things”.

Well fine –

Tell me what meaning it has …

that isn’t some sort of `grabbed-on-to` sort of thing~?

~~~

~~~

  • Axionication3

    The pastor story smells like horse shit. White River (town) and crocodile river are both in Sooth Efrica not Zimbabwe.
    Super funny though (and of course a nice intro to your thinks).
    ——
    Life is meaningless (the bible sez so)

    • axel1million

      Yeah, fake news horseshit.
      “All that was left of him when they finished eating him is a pair of sandals and his underwear floating above the water.” LOL!

  • axel1million

    On the religious thing.
    The way I look at it is:-
    People are born into the world.
    No one knows what is going on.
    Its not nice not to know what’s going on.
    Some people made up shit about whats going on.
    People like that and follow it.

    Problem is its fucked up and generally doesn’t work in the ‘real’ world.

    • Axionication3

      Problem with some religious texts is that I like them. I like them in the same way as a clever Nick comment.

      (I would hate to ‘throw the baby out with the bathwater’. So much of our programming and circumstance has been driven by religion. Good and bad.)

      • axel1million

        All religion is two things to me. The gnostics and the ritual.
        The gnostics are good and the ritual is generally bad(corrupted by man so to speak).

        • axel1million

          The ideal is to have ritual based purely on gnostics. This is the difficult part for (man) as he wants to ‘take advantage’ of any ritual for his own end.

          • Axionication3

            Nice comments!

            • axel1million

              At times in the past when I have brought up (gnostics ~ ritual) balance.
              People have commented that the gnostics could be faulty or ‘faked’.
              Yes, people could and do produce fake gnostics but they get washed out when they fail the test of hard reality.

              It goes deep, yin~yang, gnostics~ritual,quantum~classical, maths~art, day~night, summer~ winter…………………………………
              Its all there – its beautiful man! ◉_◉

              • First there was `religion` which was the name for `science` back then.

                Now … science is science.

              • `Gnostics` are, at best, Level 2 POM.

                • axel1million

                  Yeah.
                  I almost don’t like to talk about gnostics as its too near to bullshit for my liking.

                  I use it exclusively as a Darwinian pattern recognition system – sort of thing.

        • I think I will disagree with this Ax.

          I go for the ritual being good … and the gnostics being generally bullshit.
          (the ritual is, of course, bullshit as well … but it is trying to be anything else)

          • axel1million

            The one without the other is the bullshit.
            They both have to be ‘true’ in a Darwinian sene.
            Gnostic can be bullshit and therefore the ritual is bullshit.
            Gnostic can be correct and the ritual bullshit(corrupted).
            Gnostic cannot be bullshit and the ritual correct.
            Gnostic has to be correct and ritual correct.

            Now, there are not correct in a scientific sense(except by chance).

            They are mainly a good guide for reality and how a human needs to ‘act’ in existence.

            Old one, ‘life is suffering’ therefore, act accordingly with that knowledge.

            Solid(modern day)example would be.
            Have a good business idea and work hard to have a better chance of success.
            The business idea is of no use by itself.
            The hard work is of no use if done in the wrong place – one can work hard digging out and filling in holes.

      • Yeah … your `do unto others … ` is fine and whatnot …

        As I said to someone here not long ago … If I ruled the world, I would encourage some sort of religion.

        As a Level 1.5 it `works`.
        (but shit … eh~!?)

    • Nice one Axeman …
      I especially like the `no one knows what is going on`. It is a nice acceptable way of saying `tabula rasa` (which comes with too-much baggage).

  • CSArichardo

    I think we are a social animal and “grabbing onto things” is what we do. It might be equally termed “loving things” ?!!

    So Axel has it right that when we are born “No one knows what is going on” but right away we want to “grab” a hold of things. It starts with a baby bottle or tit and goes from there all driven by “desire”. To desire it you must have told yourself you need it or want it ? The reason for that could be “made up” or “fake” it makes no difference other than it drives the “need”. Religion drives needs.

    • Au contraire mon pot … Needs drive religions.

      We feel `a lack` / `a hole` / `something missing` … and try and fill it with anything in grabbing range.

      • CSArichardo

        Something drives you to religion like a football team. Once there they do what it takes to keep you needing or wanting it !

        • A bonus-point point to Richardo for – “Something drives you to … “

    • axel1million

      We still don’t know whats going on.
      All we have done is found out some things that work in whatever is going on.

      Gnostics that claim they know what is going are not really gnostics but ‘made up bullshit’.
      Gnostics is what I think of as good pattern recognition – kinda’

  • pw

    A good question is one that shuts doors to shit answers. This is a very good question!

    Everyone seems to grab on to something (have a belief ) I cant think of any example where this is not the case. Even the proverbial boy reared by wolves had wolf pack religion.

    It must be a social predisposition that we suffer from. In some cases religion is the tribal/social control in others it is a legal doctrine imprinted to achieve order.

    The following is an example of a scientific legislature being used to further justify a religious position.

    http://sillysutras.com/einsteins-mystical-ideas-about-god-death-afterlife-and-reincarnation

    appologies if link doesn’t work, the mobile won’t copy/paste urls on here for some reason !

    • axel1million

      I consider evolution has reduced our reliance on instinct and increased our reliance on culture.
      In other words our instinctual drives have being evolved away and our cultural inheritance has been advanced.
      We (humans) are born with practically blank brains, although the framework and capacity for us to download information is greatly increased.
      I suspect there is an evolutionary advantage to this. I consider the internet and the rise of tech as evolution going exponential.

      • pw

        I agree the instinctual brain has been lowered in terms of rank to that of the “social” brain which is predisposed to doctrine/religion.
        Evolution has apparently favoured the collaberation of the group over the individual.

        I think the “experience/memories” bit of the brain at birth is empty but the way “happenings” are stored
        is done using dna’s evolutionary memory.

        The internet is definitely helping in reducing the time it takes to become indoctrinated, ironically at the cost of diversity. So much learned in the word as opposed to the deed.

        I think our undoing will come about due to its polarising effects and in the end this will result a (forced/coerced) singularity of opinion.

        • axel1million

          Agreed.
          I view the DNA adaptations to evolutionary memory as framework adaptations for outsourcing instinctive memory to whatever cultural/social paradigm is going at time of birth.
          Seems to work – we’ll be on mars in a few years.

          • pw

            Mars may be too risky from a PR perspective to happen any time soon.

            Risk of credibility measured in odds of survival which aint good.

            Increase in Complexity is driving down increase in quality!

            • axel1million

              Within the next 5-10 years.
              2022,2025 or 2027.
              I think they will miss 22 and then someone will have a go for 25.
              If things go wrong(big picture) then 27 is the next best bet.

              • pw

                It would be great to see a unifying event like that but horrible for society if it failed.

                Maybe if the Chinese and Russia got onboard a failure would not seem as pivotal.

                Odd one that, I seem to be implying that there is an ego that is concerned with groups I associate but not as egotistical when everyone who seem to matter fails aswell?

                • axel1million

                  Such an event is a ‘mankind moment’.
                  If it fails on the first attempt they will soon try again.

                  Everyone is standing on each others shoulders( that’s the truth about the way it is).
                  If Elon Musk’s team gets to mars it will because ‘we’ helped them.

      • `Instinct` being `genetic` `programming` … like the `natural` fear of snakes / loud noises / vans / bicycles / door-knobs etc.

        After that we have probable attraction to smiles / Disney mobiles / Ferraris / etc.

        And … Attraction to beautiful ladies, boys, dogs, sheep, etc.

        And … A tendency to get angry, sad, jealous, lovey-dovey, etc.

        And … what else~?

        Learn patterns.

        Hate niggers.

        Big-up ourselves at every available moment.

        Watch television.

        Buy Gucci loafers.

        Covet our neighbour’s ox.

        Dislike Brussels and Brussel sprouts.

        etc.

        • axel1million

          I think I read somewhere loud noises is the only instinct which was hard wired.
          The rest can be programmed in or out.

          Although its hard to resist a beautiful sheep(so they tell me – em Canada fellers).

          • Loud noises (and a fear of falling off something … apparently).

  • axel1million

    The one on the RHS of the photograph is looking rather disappointed? Reminds me of the ‘disappointed horse’ sketch.

    • Maybe no one has tried to grab her~!?

      • axel1million

        No surprise why not!
        I recon most pervs would see her coming a mile away?

  • snedmeister1

    Evening Nick.

    Latching onto something, like religion, or football…
    Personally, I don’t seem to have latched onto anything ( obvious ) to speak of.

    My dad is an absolute football fanatic though, so I could pose him the question – just for curiosities sake.

    I think I will know his answer though, it will be something like “what’s not to like?”

    I’m guessing much of latching onto stuff is to feel part of something, or feel significant?
    That’s all I can muster up. Many things people latch onto make them part of a ‘group’ or ’cause’ and this gives them a sense of belonging, or purpose. It is comforting, I suppose?

    I doubt that is the entire picture, but is all I can imagine when looking at people I know.

    How was Paris..!??

    • Hello Sned,
      What gives life meaning for you then~?
      Or …
      If I took away your motorbike and holidays, what would you do~?

      Paris was simply ‘oribal.

      • snedmeister1

        The honest answer is I don’t know, Nick.

        I suspect I would become burdened but the ills of the world, and spend more time working on my old camper..!!

        but more to your point, I would feel disconnected from the world and probably depressed?
        Most likely drink a lot more alcohol??

        • The post was `clever` … in that it was meant to be `a key` to quite a few disparate questions.

          Because of this, I could choose to take you into many different directions.

          For you, I think the best continuation is to ask why you can’t just `sit (and do nothing)`.

          I go this way, because you have kinda already moved this way.
          You say that you `need` to feel connected (not that I see how `going on holiday` or `riding you bike` plugs you into the world~?)

          The question is … what is this `connected shit~?`.
          Is it the same as your dad connecting to a football team~?

          Bottom-line … Do we need to talk more about humans `needing to feel connected`?

          • snedmeister1

            No, probably not….

            I go on holiday to fill my time and distract me.
            It pulls you from the mundane, the obligatory tasks,
            and sometimes – if you are lucky – gives you something new to look at / do.

            Holidays give me a break from the mundane.

            Without them, I would be forced to focus on the absolute madness of it all.

            I am cursed with inquisition and we are all cursed with an ability to think abstractly.
            I suppose we are all the same – it is merely what distracts us sufficiently that differs??

            I would like to say that there is something missing in the world, but that is to imply that there should be something there.

            • What is wrong with `the mundane`?
              Is it so shit~?

              Do you think it `should be` more than it is~?

              Do you not recognize that `life is shit`? (and isn’t more, no should it be more, than it is~?).

              When you recognize that `life is shit` … you don’t have to distract yourself from it, because that would be stupid (like a fish saying it is going to swim away from `all this water, because it is so boring`).

              • snedmeister1

                The mundane is shit, in the sense that it is boring.
                it leads you to constantly look outward at the world – and the world is shit.

                By default, it makes me think life in general is shit, even if I can sometimes find ways to enable myself to not see it?

                • I’ll pretend to be Sidartha Guatama (the Buddha) two-thousand-and-some years-ago (as opposed to Mystic Nick over the last few years on OTP) …

                  Life is suffering.

                  Accept it.

                  Do not, whatever the fuck you do … try and run-away from (or try to hide-from) it.

                  • snedmeister1

                    Why would that be the advice, Nick?

                    • Because, by `escaping` … you do not actually escape (because you cannot escape life).

                      Life must be taken `as a whole` and not split up.

                      If you split it up … you will be stuck with 1 good-bit for every 99 bad bits (because good-bits are always shorter-lasting than the rest).

                      Attempts to `up` the good bits, will only serve to `down` the bad bits.

                      Life is too big to go chopping it up … it will make you regret trying.

                      1. Life is `a whole`
                      then 2. Life is.

                      The first rule of `Life Club` is … you can’t fight life.

                    • snedmeister1

                      That does strangely make sense Nick.

                      temporary reprievment from the dullness is over all too soon.

                      I don’t think I will change though. What other option do we have?

                      It becomes denying yourself if you stop – much of what I do is opportunity presented by others of what I can get involved in….

                    • Well … we can’t really continue without going over into Level3.

                      I’ll do some `transition` posts soon (perhaps).

                    • snedmeister1

                      No problem – look forward to them.

                      I will be in London over the next few days, so won’t be on until the evenings.

                      Bear in mind, that I will be way behind in any level 3 discussions you may have had with Axel and co..!!

                    • Level3. is just `the same old shit` … just re-hashed and served to look different.

          • Axionication3

            I seriously think that you (we) overestimate how much people think on ‘meaning’. It would not surprise me if the majority of people never (or very very seldom) think on it.
            Again, kinda a ‘what the fuck are you on about!?’

            • What we are (kinda) doing … is doing the thinking for them.
              (Level2.)
              They may not know why they distract themselves, but we can ask –
              1. Why do they distract themselves~?
              2. How do they distract themselves~?

              3. Is it `nature` or `nurture` that people distract themselves.
              4. Distract themselves `from what`?

              5. Why are we distracting ourselves about why other people distract themselves~?
              5. Ah … scream~!?

            • snedmeister1

              I agree. I doubt people think on it much.
              But wouldn’t the reasons they do things will be the same, whether they think about it or not?

              i.e. Whether you know why you do things or not becomes a different matter. As mentioned above by Richardo, we are just driven.

              I don’t do any `distracting` consciously – I merely do it, and why when I stop to think.

              • Axionication3

                Yes, that is well said Sned.
                (I do think that the more one thinks on it the more one (subconsciously/programly) starts to use better quality distraction shit;) and…we probably obtain a superior buzz (feedback) to keep us keeping on.
                (I think it was Lyal that said something about us all being ‘Bozos on the same train’))

                • Axioniication3

                  And I do genuinely believe that it is a route to a ‘more compassionate society’.
                  Whether we do any ‘routing’ or not, is not relevant to my thinking of the above sentence)

            • axel1million

              Hardly anyone thinks about meaning.
              I think they are the lucky ones, I really do.
              I also suspect that is what keeps the whole thing together – the not thinking.

              • axel1million

                I wrote a long comment and saw it was good(sorta) – before posting it I deleted it!
                Then it occurred to me, I really am not my fucking khakis!

                • No matter … you read what you wrote, so you are up-to-date with what you may think.

                  (if you only had free-will, you could have squeezed it through … against the wishes of the Universe)

                  • axel1million

                    The comment I deleted was along the lines of how people in general(almost all people) have never thought any of the big questions.
                    Then I happened on this video – which I suspect is the universe having a change of mind!

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjMyZbsRpqQ

                    • I blame the modern education-system.

                      There was a time, when going to university meant … getting off-your-head and discussing this sort of stuff all night.
                      Now what do they do … learn stuff~?

                      (I liked the guy with the microphone though)

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl89g2SwMh4

                    • axel1million

                      I think that’s exactly right.
                      Is it ‘rote learning’ they do? They just memorise stuff and have no clue what it means.

                      Still, I have been here(on earth) a long time and still don’t know what it means!

                      “Feed your head….”, maybe that’s it?

                    • axel1million

                      Well spotted on de tune btw !

                    • Axionication3

                      I worked briefly for a Japanese construction company (in blighty). Went out one evening with a group of the company executives to a Karoke bar…I managed to persuade one of the jappies to sing this song on stage. Hilarious~!

                      (I was impressed with how spectaculary drunk Japanese people can become. Absolutely legless)

                    • snedmeister1

                      Same with Chinese people, Axion…

                      Similar story – we had a Chinese IT wizard come over for a few weeks. On his last night the team took him out for a meal, and I don’t think he had more than four pints.

                      He had to be assisted back to his room, and put to bed. His legs were completely gone.

                      Poor man took days to recover.
                      I think he was a bit embarrassed, but we all saw the funny side.

                    • Axionication3

                      I think it was/is a Japanese corporate culture thing. They would be rock solid serious at work and magnificantly silly when out drinking.
                      (The novelty of witnessing it wore off pretty quickly for me)