It’s not fair

Here is a rough transcription of the presentation for people who are hard of hearing. Apologies for the lack of grammar, I am working to improve the automated transcriptions -
morning Monday this is just a paragraph from the New York Times it’s about robot eyes Asian of factories and we will all seen some sort of an article like this recently but this is kind of showing that the robots are getting cleverer and cleverer this is the future and new wave of robots far more adept than those now commonly used by automakers another heavy manufacturers are replacing workers around the world in both manufacturing and distribution factories like the one here in the Netherlands to Philips factory are a striking counterpoint to those used by Apple and other consumer electronics giants which employ hundreds of thousands of low skilled workers basically the Philips of got a factory as well in China and one in Holland that they’re built with these new robots that can do really clever small manipulations and the Dutch factory employees this many people as opposed at this many people in China you can imagine how it’s going I put this in the first because who is going to own the robots is the question open question right I’m going to now stress what I started it was it yesterday with inheritance tax estate taxes and I think open it up to psychology right this Paul is a Gallup poll and it was 2010 before the mid-term elections in the United States last midterms 2010 are even read them all if you pause it but number three in the very important, never ranked everything by how well you doing the very important percentage number three was extending unemployment benefits for the long-term unemployed was number three in the rankings in the very important number two was extending some of the federal income taxes tax cuts passed by George W Bush that are set to expire so arm extending the Bush tax cuts was number two number one is very important that the 2010 midterms was passing legislation that would keep the estate tax from increasing significantly next year was more important than extending the Bush tax cuts and extending the unemployment benefits for the long-term unemployed very important 56 somewhat important 26 Adam together you get 82% obviously statistical mineral latitude but that’s a huge percentage the something going on do one more harm this is from a large PDF am of got all sorts of information in it I almost got caught in it for a few days some taxes are paid to the federal government in Washington and some taxes to state and local governments using a scale of 1 to 5 where one means very fair and five means not very tall please indicate what you think of these federal taxes in terms of fairness now this PDF at this stage is stressing estate tax taxes inheritance tax and in the top one in the Harris tax foundation 2009 poll estate taxes very fair only for then 520 637 and 38 more than all the others including cigarettes and beer corporation tax Social Security payroll roll taxes gas taxes the federal income taxes the one that was judged to be the most unfair was the estate taxes at 38 and in our her another Harris poll was 2007 so same sort of thing am in it was slightly more extends you waited two years earlier by 42% think it is not thought that it was not fair at all arm the people of the United States are very very much that I’m saying very very much because whipped with talking cigarette beer and wine taxes corporate corporate Corporation taxes Social Security payroll taxes gas taxes federal income taxes of all those saying the one that they think is unfair is the estate tax the inheritance tax about I think from what I’ve been looking at these polls some sort of psychological explanation has to be found I’m going to go for some sort of pseudo-religious sort of thing and I would say that I’m still going to go with mainly what men in white and whiteness but the list too much of it just to be Mac mail and white that in some way this is some sort of passing on this is not dying sort of thing written in that that’s what I mean by religion in some way people see I will anger at posset that they are thinking that they won’t die if they can pass on what they have accomplished what they have gained in their lifetime if they can pass it on my bike that must be some unjust and throw that in is my idea leave it view to come up with your ideas but it’s such a strong feeling them must be something quite deep and visceral behind it this is not just an airy fairy sort of armed just an idea off the top of their heads this is something that they really feel deeply about why this can get worse the rich are going to get richer this is no doubt about this album with the robot as Asian as few few big few people are working and capital starts to become we get back to a new industrial age where buying the appropriate machinery is the way of the future and it’s only a certain few people that have the appropriate arm capital to buy the new physical capital and they will become the new Leo Parks ran the world with got them in Russia and the way things are going and less some somebody can really throwing year really hard across and change direction we are going to get the absolutely hyper rich oligarchs in most all the Western nations as well as in your trillionaire’s been absolutely peaked rich people and the people the normal people at the bottom the serfs slaves by then my bets still would be betting against those oligarchs they would still let them inherit past their inheritance on the is a certain fascination with the rich people and that might be part of it I don’t know what it is but I don’t think the way to be taking the wealth off the hyper wealthy is via estate taxes because the bulk of the people will not be for it must be another way found if that is the desirable thing to do for some sort of campaign of a re-education for the masses would have to be implemented but for the moment they are totally resistant to anything that is being put out there and William by

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  • Ivo

    Cant help it but to comment on this one.
    If the hundreds of thousands of low-skilled workers are being unemployed by robots it will go wrong.
    No workers mean no end consumers of most products made. No work no demand no growth.
    You can be a trillionaire but it wont do you any good cause there will be no longer profit.
    Sitting on money (hard or otherwise) will not extend the inevitable.

    • Bigcollapso

       We are also deeply into diminishing returns on some of this technology. I have installed and commissioned glass decking cells that replace two workers per shift at a cost in excess of 1 million USD. I don’t know how they calculate everything but this seems like very marginal ROI to me.
      There is also a severe shortage of people that can program and debug automation, driving the salaries very high.

  • windslice

    Estate taxes.

    I guess there are two types.

    Inheritance tax and ongoing estate tax as a wealth tax.

    From the ongoing “wealth tax” I guess the attitude is “I’ve paid for this with money that I’ve already paid taxes on, and then paid more taxes buying stuff, jeeze when will the bloody tax man finally bugger off?”

    And inheritance tax. From the dying point of view, they want to preserve as much of the accumulated wealth as possible to pass on to the brats, and not see it sliced up and fed back into the black hole of government spending. 

    And from the brats’ point of view, they want to receive as much as possible.

    I have thought this through a few times, and cannot come up with a “fair” way of dealing with it in all circumstances. For example if a dead factory owner’s estate had to pay taxes on the assets, then it is possible the factory would have to be closed. That would be bad.

    But when Soros dies, I don’t have an issue if his estate is taxed 90%. It’s all non-productive paper stuff.

    However I do think that assets accumulated during a lifetime should be spent to support the retirement years. I do not agree to paying taxes to allow somebody else to pass their wealth on to the brats. As, indeed, I do not agree to paying taxes so that other people can bring up brats. If you can’t afford the little bastards, you shouldn’t have them.

    And I am totally against taxes on beer.

  • http://www.richnewbold.co.uk/ Richard

    To some degree, estate tax is trying to fix a problem after the fact – ie. people being allowed to accumulate vast sums of money far greater than they could ever spend or make use of. That said, I also think everybody should stand on their own feet and not inherit their way through life.

  • http://www.alda-architects.co.uk/ Alan

    Machiavelli on Property

     Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he
    does not win love, he avoids hatred; because he can endure very well
    being feared whilst he is not hated, which will always be as long as he
    abstains from the property of his citizens and subjects and from their
    women. But when it is necessary for him to proceed against the life of
    someone, he must do it on proper justification and for manifest cause,
    but above all things he must keep his hands off the property of others,
    because men more quickly forget the death of their father than the loss
    of their patrimony. Besides, pretexts for taking away the property are
    never wanting; for he who has once begun to live by robbery will always
    find pretexts for seizing what belongs to others; but reasons for taking
    life, on the contrary, are more difficult to find and sooner lapse. But
    when a prince is with his army, and has under control a multitude of
    soldiers, then it is quite necessary for him to disregard the reputation
    of cruelty, for without it he would never hold his army united or
    disposed to its duties.

  • http://www.alda-architects.co.uk/ Alan

    Most people like to think that they will hand on something to their children who then in turn will build upon it. They want to spare their children the need to work as hard as they had to.

    You may find that the results of those surveys change if a figure for the size of the estate was given.

  • Axel1million

    One of the subtleties of any tax on the rich is that, if they take the money away from the rich it won’t be long until they have it back again!
    I remember a long time ago the idea hit me like an epiphany — even if you give money to the poor they will still end up poor, and if you take the money form the rich they will soon get it back again.Of course people go from being poor to rich and some from rich to poor (those whom have been handed money).

    The robot factories are starting to appear. I would take a guess that by 2025 factory workers will be as scarce on the ground as Dockers are today.Technology is going to change everything, Health,Manufacturing,Transport,Energy,(everything) will be taken over by machines. Eventually machines will out-think humans… then what?… my guess is that the masses will retreat into virtual worlds.

    • http://overthepeak.com/wordpress/ Mystic

       Yes, in post Soviet Russia, they gave away all the state owned stuff to the people …………. a few years later …….. 50 oligarchs owned the lot.

      • Axel1million

         That is a prime example.

        I have a theory that the rich are educated to be rich and the poor to be poor. Occasionally someone poor will think out of the box and become rich, but it doesn’t happen often.

        Eaton college is an example of how the rich are educated to approach the world, basically they are told the world is their oyster and nothing is beyond their achievement.  The poor are told they are destined to work until they retire and to accept their ‘lot’.

    • http://www.alda-architects.co.uk/ Alan

       So what the truly rich should fear is not tax and attempts at reasonable redistribution, but a breakdown in social order and collapse. Turchin (Cliodynamics) believes that the USA is entering a period of violent political unrest.

      http://www.nature.com/news/human-cycles-history-as-science-1.11078

      Some interesting concepts like ‘elite over production’ ie too many well educated and not enough prospects:- can lead to problems.

      However we could well be at a period akin to Europe in the late 5th Century. A period of steady decline where short sighted vested interests prevent needed change.

      • Axel1million

         The rich don’t really fear anything, if society breaks down they will take over as the new leaders… self appointed of course.
        The problem is the poor like to be led, they love rules, punishments and being oppressed. They are always looking up for guidance.

        I don’t put much confidence in the type of prediction described by Turchin. Human systems are way too complicated to be cyclic to any reliable degree of repeatability. 

        Society will be forced to change in the near term future. My guess would be a decline in materialism and a rise in experience-ism. Intellectual Property will be the big thing.

        • axionication1

          Poorer people are generally pro social contract ( exception being the poor that are lead to believe that Ayn Rand & her ilk are their saviours). The rich are, for obvious reasons, less reliant on social contract.

          Symptoms!

  • guest of the day

    Every work must be robotized. Then people just can do what they like to do. When everything is robotized then the products are being made automatically and everybody do not have to work anymore. They will get the products for free.
    Then one does not have the need for “bosses” and “employees”. It is the natural cause of things, progress in technology will go on and on, and will give everybody more wealth.

    • Axel1million

       ”They will get the products for free”

      I would like to think this would happen, although I doubt it as it entails humans been equal… and there is one thing about humans is that they hate to be equal.

  • Willbick

    Perhaps the masses think estate taxes are unfair because they are answering the question from their point of view – i.e. ‘are estate taxes on ME fair?’, not ‘are estate taxes as a general concept fair?’. Obviously most people will think estate taxes on THEM are unfair as their estate belongs to them. I dont think the redistribution of wealth aspect actually comes into most people’s thinking.

  • Subtlepath

    My guess on the estate tax resistance….it violates the territorial imperative….no one is going to give away territory (economic or otherwise) that was “hard won” and destined to be passed along familial or tribal lines.