Avoidable expenses

  By Mystic | August 15, 2012 - 06:04 |

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Written by: Mystic on August 15, 2012.
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  • Camilo

    Hello
    Maybe the subject of a future video: How to store this money? In the bank? In precious metals? In properties?.
    If the objective is to keep it as long as you live, how to minimize the risk of loosing it thought inflation, financial crisis, etc….

    • windslice

      That is not the issue.

      The big thing is to STOP spending money on CRAP, and STOP taking on debt to buy CRAP.

      Once you get into the mindset of saving and not spending, thinking,”do I need this now” and, in my case, positively HATING spending money, you already put yourself into a substantially better position.

    • http://overthepeak.com/wordpress/ Mystic

       As Windy says ……… first things first.

    • Anne Panne

        Like the great Chesterton said it: “Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before.”

  • Flig_in_Detroit

    Is it really possible for everyone to take your path?  If everyone did that, would your path work?  Or is it a bit like the relationship between Germany and Greece? 

    • windslice

      Probably yes.

      But it would severely hinder the development of high tech stuff. Which has its advantages.

      I suppose it would have put the planet on a lower development curve.

      But there will always be the ambitious, the wannabees, the wannahavits driving us forward.

      So,

      Probably no.

    • snedmeister1

      Probably not possible, the current system relies on the creation of new debt….

      If it were not for the `indebted` among us taking on this new debt, the system would fall under it’s own weight…

      Not that I would want to be one of the `indebted` though..!!! 
      I walk my path, and let the others walk theirs…

      ( Maybe I’m just a selfish person though..?? )

  • windslice

    Yep, that defines the major choices people have.

    You want it now, on debt, then pay for it until you die.

    Or,

    You don’t want it now, in fact you don’t ever want a new Porsche, (well, you do really, but it’s simply not in the plan) but have a long term objective to get off the damn treadmill.

    I could go into more detail on where I have saved, but it serves no real purpose except to boost my ego and piss people off because they cannot or will not make the same choices.

    However, my Nokia mobile phone is now at least seven years old, I can’t find the touch screen operation thingy (I’m beginning to realise there may not be one), but it does have the extravagance of a colour display. Still functions perfectly, despite dropping and even being submerged once or twice.

    Would I like the latest Samsung S whatever? Yep, nice piece of candy. Do I need it? Nope. Will I buy it? Nope.

    Because buying all this candy crap could put me back on the treadmill. I do definitely do NOT need THAT.

    Oh, and for the last 25 years I have lived in places where people dream of going on holiday all year, and spend large amounts of cash to do so for just two weeks. The other 50 weeks are spent working “for the Man”.

    It is your choice.

  • http://www.richnewbold.co.uk/ Richard

    Huh? Where’d my comment go???? Disqus and iPads really aren’t compatible. Anyways, as I was saying…

    Very good video.

    You can add education to babies and mortgages (all things I’ve this far managed to avoid). The amount of debt that students are saddling themselves with is shocking and it will take them years to pay it off – if they ever do. I thought about going to university and was offered a place to study architecture, but I turned it down because I didn’t want to get in to debt to do it. 

    I have a fickle relationship with work. I LOVE creating websites or working on a good bit of code – I get a big ego boost / sense of accomplishment by producing something single-handedly that it takes teams of people to do at other companies, but I HATE the obligation to do work for people – even when there’s a good profit in it. 

    I also find the obligation to pay back a mortgage very scary – I’d hate to have to get up and work for 25+ years just to pay back a debt. I know people who’ve done it in 10 by over-paying (and having the benefit of 2 salaries to contribute), but that’s still not for me. 

    I think, when it comes down to it, I just hate being obligated to do things. 

    I still waste a bit too much money (TV subscription for example), but I still have the advantage of time – being a 30 something and debt free. 

    • http://overthepeak.com/wordpress/ Mystic

       Yes, education is a modern addition to the load.

      It is odd that we have both been pushed to work hard, but in order to avoid `having to work`.

      (Both your comments came through to my e-mail, but only one showed up here.  As you say ….. odd~!).

      Windy day for bike riding ……… but I still got out ……… did you~?
      (I have a new bike arriving on Friday)

      • http://www.richnewbold.co.uk/ Richard

        I tried to re-create my comment from memory – I think my first one was better. 

        Anyways, I went out two nights ago and beat my time for the shorter ride I do. I’ll be out again tomorrow for a longer ride. I’ve been averaging a ride every two days since I got back here. Here’s a weird thing: if I create a training schedule or plan I simply can’t stick to it – the idea of “having to” do something just puts me right off, but if I go out and ride when I feel like it I would be riding more than if I planned it. I’ve not figured out why it’s like that, but that’s the way it is.

        What kind of bike did you buy?

        • http://overthepeak.com/wordpress/ Mystic

           Yes, I think it is important to have the times established to beat.
          It is then `me v. me` …… A nice private world of competition.
          (and me goes out to beat me when me feels like it)

          ((an Ortler `trekking` bike))

  • CSArichardo

    There are a view like minded out there.

    http://www.wisebread.com/book-review-early-retirement-extreme

  • Axel1million

    An important subject well presented by the Mystic.

    I think people can change from spenders to savers, in fact I am an example of just that. When I was younger I was naive enough to take out a bank loan to purchase a car (I imagined owning the car would give me magical properties or something). The car took ages and ages to pay off and when I finally paid it off, I had paid almost twice the original price. Since then I have been on the savers side of the equation.

    Change your life, become a saver…. no really!

    • http://overthepeak.com/wordpress/ Mystic

       Lucky you learnt early Axel~!

      • Axel1million

        It was.
        I would consider it to be one of the most singular defining moments of my life.
        Unfortunately wider society often paints savers as misers living a miserable existence, which we know is complete nonsense.In my experience a saver is almost always more relaxed and generally unfettered by the goings on in our hypomanic media driven society. 

        • Axel1million

          By the comments a lot of people seem to think being a saver is a negative trait.
          I think the subject is important enough to have another go.

          A saver is not someone who relentlessly saves without purpose, that is the definition of a miser. A saver is someone who saves towards some objective, maybe they want to buy a car, (nothing wrong with that) but they want to pay for it outright.
          The main objective of most ‘savers’ is to be financially independent, so they are not enslaved to the system.
          If you have a family(wife, husband, whatever) to look after, or if you care for the welfare of your friends and neighbours then being financially independent should be at the top of your list.

          I think the top priority for anyone is to get their home out of the system… why?.. because if someone falls on hard times they will kick them out on the street (Isn’t strange, when someone is down on their luck the system just sticks the boot in harder… what kind of humans are we?).
          As for the working thing, well we are going to spend a portion of our lives working anyway so at least if we save we may have the option of spending less time working!!!

          People worry about what will happen when they get old, who will look after them etc….
          When you get old your are fucked, money, no money it makes no difference, the chances are your family will shove you in some home because you wont know the difference and even if you do they probably wont care.
          When we reach 80 years old its probably time to take one final drive over a steep cliff… make sure you have plenty of passengers after all we don’t like to die alone!!!

           

  • CSArichardo

    Bullshit !  You have children to look after you in your old age !  Right ?

    • Haploid

      on the one hand I feel a sense of pity for Mystic that he and Mrs Mystic decided not to have kids based on this current dilemma of savers and spenders.  Perhaps Mystic  would have had kids if the world was overrun by savers but unfortunately it doesn’t appears to be.  Not everyone has this risk-averse mentality like savers do which is probably why we’re heading for the mother of all collapses in spectacular proportions; and savers despite their prudence will probably end up losing it all …unfortunately.
      And I disagree with you partially on that ‘caring in old age’ comment – don’t we end up putting our parents in old folks homes and that, if we can afford it too which we probably won’t going forward.  So perhaps Mystic did the right thing in hindsight considering this as we go forward.  I’m not totally pessimistic though and things probably will get better before they get a whole load worse so prepare accoordingly and Mystic certainly did.

  • Anne Panne

    Good for you!

    But can’t you become a miser by habit too?

    My father-in-law work every day at the farm at 78.  He is physically and mentally fit. He is in his third marriage and have a daughter at 18.  My mother-in-law is waning rapidly in her small apartment down town with only the TV to accompany her.
    My own parents both died right before they’d got their pensions. Will I do the same? Or will I live to be 107 like my granny? 

    I don’t care that much. I try to live within my means as I hate dreading the mail-box. Still I don’t like to keep my money to my self and rather than feeding the casino I share it with real people.
    My concern is who would remember me if I live to be as old as granny, more than who will feed me.

  • axionication1

    When we are put in the box the Tax Man comes along to take a huge wad of it anyhow.

    Ha!

  • http://www.belfast-architects.co.uk/ Alan

    Borrowing to consume bad, borrowing to invest or reduce outgoings different matter. How extreme we take it is a life style choice. All depends on priorities and having gained those extra years of work free life there is still the choice on how to spend them and if that could also be regarded as a waste of ones life and that again depends on each individuals perspective and what they value. Overall fine. It is not unduly impinging on society to provide the services needed to exist and tax is still being collected on purchases to pay for the roads you use etc. 

    There are of course many that make the same decisions on the stupidity of working and paying tax. People for whom there is little point in working as they are no better off. Many use the system to live and raise their family. Therein lies a major problem. 

    I believe the problem with the current system of government  is centralisation, trough feeders and inefficiency. Hard to relate to a broad back. Government has become a burden and the benefits for many are less than the disadvantages. Over governed. 

  • snedmeister1

    Good morning Nick, and morning all….

    I think there is a spectrum of varying degrees of `savers` and `spenders` to consider when discussing this subject…
    This next bit may sound like I am defending my position, but really, it is a different perspective for us to consider….

    One extreme, is the `spender`, who borrows relentlessly, chasing the new Ipud etc, constantly in debt, and constantly chasing the new fashionable items…

    Another, is the miser who spends nothing, and lives a miserable life ( whether they consider it miserable is obviously open to debate, but lets say, it is a life I would consider miserable )

    I have encountered both extremes in my short ( ish ) life, and can safely say, I am comfortable with where I sit on the `spectrum`, ie I spend lots of money doing the things that give me pleasure, and with the people who’s company I enjoy, but I draw the line at borrowing money to do them….

    The only debt I have, is a mortgage, and although this may seem stupid to some, it is the right decision for me… Why..???
    Because I have to live somewhere, especially while saving for a house….!!!

    For several reasons, I was supporting myself and living alone from 18…
    I either have rented somewhere and try and save ( while house prices were increasing at a faster rate than I could have saved at ), or I borrowed the money…
    No brainer really… The rent would have been more than the interest on the mortgage..!!!

    I will end with this thought…

    What is the `saver`, who has no-one to leave it to, actually saving for..???
    What is the benefit of money, if it is not to spend..???
    ( A comfort blanket..??? )

    I routinely remind myself, as a person who has decided to have no children, “The winner is not the man who dies with the most money”….

    Food for thought maybe..?? Or maybe it’s just `Horses for courses` as we say here..?? 

    ( Apologies for not commenting recently )

    • http://www.richnewbold.co.uk/ Richard

      You mentioned “extremes”, and based on some other comments, I’d like to point out that it’s not necessarily a choice between:

      1) borrow and spend and have some fun but be indebted, or…
      2) be a miser and be miserable but not indebted

      A lot of people have mentioned “saving” in these comments, but saving, isn’t necessarily the goal either. The goal is not to be obligated (or enslaved if one is using stronger terms) to a commitment that keeps you doing something you don’t enjoy (ie. work for most people) for most of your life. In fact, it’s probably more of a lifestyle thing than simply a money thing and I’d like to see the discussion drift towards the lifestyle side of things rather than just talking about savings. 

      • snedmeister1

        I think I mentioned that these were not the only two options, ( I think )….

        But your point about not being obligated to work, is valid….
        Unfortunately, it is not a realistic path for me, spending the best two thirds of my life, sacrificing for a last third so I can not work, isn’t how I imagine me spending my days….( And that’s if you make it, many perish before they reap the rewards of their hard work )I want to see as much as I can, experience as much as I can, but not borrow to do it….I want to do this while I am young enough, healthy enough, and have enough marbles to appreciate it…I think it is the `horses for courses` phrase I referred to last time, ie people are suited to different lifestyles…Existing as an early retiree, is not what I consider `living`, but I fully accept many see this as the ultimate goal, and good on them…Live your life as you see fit, but I have seen far too many people pass away, or squander their lives away, never realising their dream….There are a couple of old boys at my place of work, both past retirement age, both spent their lives saving for retirement…I know, deep down, they will die working….One of them, I had in my mind when I wrote my last comment….The part where I ask, what is he saving for..???He has no family to speak of, no wife, no kids, and is one of the most bitter men you could meet… What a tragedy….???I understand the desire to not have to work, and I applaud you if you get there, but for me, I think to live the life I want, I need to live it now….Debt, to live it though, is firmly off the cards…!!! :)

        • http://www.richnewbold.co.uk/ Richard

          Hey Sned, sorry mate, I wasn’t arguing with what you were saying or commenting on your lifestyle or having a mortgage. What you are asking is a valid question: what’s the point of building up a retirement pot if you don’t get to use it? I share much of Mystics thinking, but where I differ slightly from Mystic is I don’t plan to retire – I plan to work much, much less and only on fun projects of my own now that I’ve achieved my goal of buying a house. My focus is now turning to lifestyle and enjoying more of life. 

          • snedmeister1

            Yes, fair enough Richard….

            I often ask myself this question…
            I watch my grandfather deteriorate to the point of entering an elderly persons home…

            He saved his lifetime, bought a house, had the family ( luckily for me..:) ) and did it “right”…

            Now he doesn’t know what day it is, his money will pay for his care, and he spent all his time in the UK retiring  at 60, comfortable, but nothing more ( beside content maybe )…

            He would tell people he enjoyed his retirement, and maybe he did, but I could think of a lot more fulfilling ways to spend my life….

            I never want to end my days like that….

            I thought about this before commenting, and started this off a day or so ago stating I wasn’t defending my position…
            Funnily enough, I think I probably was…!!??

            It’s odd how you feel compelled to do or say something, based on feelings you have rather than how you `think` sometimes, isn’t it..??

            Apologies if I sounded abrupt last time, and good luck with your choices…!!!

  • Garryentropy

    saving money, avoiding working, suckered into children, very strange outlook, I think of the saying ‘he who does’nt enter the battle is often the most sorely wounded’

    • CSArichardo

      no I think it was spend money (not borrowed), have a challenge working (not an enslaved careerist), do not limit having sex to have children (maybe more often than that), very different outlook!?

  • http://twitter.com/MechaTengu mechatengu

    Great talk.. agreed with everything in it